DHerr
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| 2/11/2009 12:00 PM |
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While in North Jersey on a business trip Monday, I ate dinner in a restaurant that was having a Hold'em game later in the evening. The game was well run and I checked out the company's website to see how it compares to RC. Very similiar in almost all aspects, except for one. This company gives "bonus points" for spending money that night at the venue. The bonus points are tiered based on how much you spend.
Would this be something that RC could do to encourage better patronage at the venues? We all know there are a ton of "...no I'll just have water..." players out there and they out number those of us that eat/drink/spend.
The point of the game is to draw customers into the venue, have them spend money, have a good time and play some poker. A venue might be willing to raise their prize levels if they have people spending money and making it a profitable venture. RC has lost a lot of games because the venue is not seeing any value to having the game. If they have to pay RC for running the game and provide prizes, the business owner is going to want to see an increase in sales.
The player would have to provide the TD a VALID receipt from that night and the TD would make note of the "bonus points" on the point sheet for that night. RC is already giving out "bonus points" for Toys for Tots, why not for patronage?
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Gorilla
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| 2/11/2009 1:03 PM |
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| interesting concept...Jim what's your take on this? |
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Seth
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| 2/11/2009 1:06 PM |
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I think this idea is brilliant and certainly a great sales tool for Griff and Jim when proposing the game to a bar or restaurant owner.
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evy34
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| 2/11/2009 7:56 PM |
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With the clarification that I dropped out of law school, and am not actually a lawyer, lol....
I think the only problem with this is that to do so *might* be conceived as "gambling". The fact that purchasing food/drink gets you extra points could be construed as paying to play. The fact that you are paying money and getting more than just food/drink in return (points which could ultimately lead to a larger monetary benefit) could theoretically be construed as gambling.
The difference between this and donating Toys for Tots in exchange for points, I am guessing, is that "Toys for Tots" is a registered charity.
Just a guess. With this all being said, I think its a great idea, if it is allowable by law.
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Seth
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| 2/11/2009 9:15 PM |
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I talked to Big Dave at Reed's tonight and he said it is definitely illegal. So much for that idea
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Gorilla
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| 2/11/2009 11:04 PM |
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| booooooooooooooooooo |
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millerd33
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| 2/11/2009 11:20 PM |
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| I would make the TOC in one weekend! |
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acstony
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| 2/12/2009 12:15 AM |
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I'm not a big spender most times when I play at RC venues, usually a couple sodas, so it wouldn't help my point count much. Eating late is a guarantee of being up all night with heart burn. But if the wife is away, then I'll go early and have dinner there.
But when I eat out, I always try to go to a venue where I play and make a point of letting the owner know I'm there in support of RC. I think most venue only look at their take during the poker game to determine if it's worthwhile but they should look at the increased traffic other nights by players.
If you patronize a venue on other than game night, be sure to let them know you are eating there in support of RC. I'm sure it will make them feel better about hosting RC games. |
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JohnAlfano
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| 2/12/2009 10:54 AM |
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Posted By millerd33 on 2/11/2009 11:20 PM
I would make the TOC in one weekend!
LOL .... You could make the TOC without even playing poker -
All IN and then Order All In.
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Gorilla
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| 2/12/2009 11:52 AM |
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Good point Tony...just curious how often do RPT players frequent a venue on a NON poker night? For me it's more likely during football season.
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ajcrdstr24
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| 2/13/2009 9:01 AM |
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| I frequent a few venues on non-poker nights from time to time, usually on a Friday or Saturday night. I agree it is definitely important that most venues need to realize that some of their poker players are there on non-poker nights. The venues that "get it" are the ones that have been running successful tournaments for a long time. I don't know how to explain dive bars and such. I'm guessing they're counting on the $ on poker night, although the dive bars that keep running poker games might just like the traffic in their small bar on poker night. |
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ripjgarcia
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| 2/13/2009 11:20 AM |
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I would imagine dive bars just see it as some profit is better than no profit. Now the Quality Inn in Lancaster is the perfect example of a venue that does not get it. First they reduced the prize, which reduced the turnout by 40%, then they took away the server (which before was the TD's wife, but was never replaced), so people have go to the bar, where the average wait is 3-4 minutes for a drink.
Some money is better than no money, especially when there is absolutely no effort to be put forth on the venues part with the exception of food and beverage service.
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Monkeyman2121/KRichads in 2012!
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griff49
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| 2/13/2009 2:34 PM |
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Referring to the original post. We know what is legal, what is not legal, and what is in the gray area... and concerning free-roll poker tournaments in bars, the LCB loves the gray area. That way they can determine a decision based on many unwritten factors.
We have done everything in our power to stay away from the grey area while other tours have embraced illegality in order to gain business. Some locations offer more chips for money spent either at the venue, tipping the dealer, or a combination of both. That is 100% illegal. You are giving a competitive advantage in a game of chance based on the spending of money. Again, just because you speed, doesn't mean you'll get caught, but it's not a risk we (as a company with over 100 games per week) are willing to take.
Concerning giving more POINTS for money spent, that's the gray area. It makes it possible to give the person on the points bubble who spends money at the last day of qualifying at the event to "buy" his points and his way into the TOC. You are now giving a competitive advantage to the person spending the money.
That doesn't mean that a different type of rewards system can't be created. Something where the money spent does earn you something, whether it's a different set of points, or an entry into a legal "small game of chance" covered by the liquor license holder.
I appreciate the input and the thought to try and help the tour. We have just lost 2 bars in Allentown because of the lack of spending. 40+ players attend an event, the GM of the location is there to review our services, and only 20 players actually ordered anything (from a soda on up). 20 players clearly didn't ask for service, and specifically declined service all night long. I find it silly that those same 20 players that don't spend a dime are some of the ones that complain to us that "RPT" lost another game. I guarentee if all the players spent their $10 then "RPT" wouldn't be losing the game.
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ripjgarcia
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| 2/13/2009 5:34 PM |
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I made up for all the money I don't spend now when I was drinking up a storm 24/7.
In fact, the one TD mentioned that I should have a lifetime membership for all the money I spent. which at the worst of it was 60 bux a night.
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Monkeyman2121/KRichads in 2012!
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Jim
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| 2/14/2009 1:11 PM |
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| You are granted special dispensation Scott, no doubt. For that, the fact that you post on here regularly, and all the support you have shown over the year, you are QUALIFIED! |
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llDayo
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| 2/17/2009 8:59 AM |
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| How about a bad beat points jackpot? Each venue could build up points based on the number of people that show up (say 1/100th of a point per person that shows up). Once a bad beat happens where four of a kind (with two of the played cards in your hand) gets beat by a better hand (again with two of the played cards in your hand) you get the bonus points rounded down to the nearest point. |
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DHerr
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| 2/17/2009 4:20 PM |
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The "other" company that offers bonus points for money spent caps the points at 5 for any money spent over $15.00. You are certainly not going to "buy" your way into the TOC on bonus points. I was merely floating an idea that I saw someone else doing that might help RPT. While I do not play nearly as many RPT games as I used to, I want RPT to be successful.
I run an "independent" game for a Lancaster restaurant and we get between 60-80 players. There is a wing and draft special and these players keep the server running all night long. The restaurant is doing very well on food/beer sales and offers a very nice $100 cash first place prize. Here is a perfect example of a successful poker/restaurant set up. I hope RPT can bring more games to the Lancaster area. |
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ESagnor
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| 2/17/2009 5:52 PM |
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Posted By DHerr on 2/17/2009 4:20 PM
The "other" company that offers bonus points for money spent caps the points at 5 for any money spent over $15.00. You are certainly not going to "buy" your way into the TOC on bonus points. I was merely floating an idea that I saw someone else doing that might help RPT. While I do not play nearly as many RPT games as I used to, I want RPT to be successful.
I run an "independent" game for a Lancaster restaurant and we get between 60-80 players. There is a wing and draft special and these players keep the server running all night long. The restaurant is doing very well on food/beer sales and offers a very nice $100 cash first place prize. Here is a perfect example of a successful poker/restaurant set up. I hope RPT can bring more games to the Lancaster area.
Doug,
Where and what date/time are you running a game in town? In respect to RC you can email your answer to me at esagnor@yahoo.com
Thanks,
Eric |
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millerd33
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| 2/17/2009 5:55 PM |
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| I don't run games. Thanks for asking though. |
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Jim
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| 2/17/2009 7:29 PM |
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Posted By DHerr on 2/17/2009 4:20 PM
The "other" company that offers bonus points for money spent caps the points at 5 for any money spent over $15.00. You are certainly not going to "buy" your way into the TOC on bonus points. I was merely floating an idea that I saw someone else doing that might help RPT. While I do not play nearly as many RPT games as I used to, I want RPT to be successful.
I run an "independent" game for a Lancaster restaurant and we get between 60-80 players. There is a wing and draft special and these players keep the server running all night long. The restaurant is doing very well on food/beer sales and offers a very nice $100 cash first place prize. Here is a perfect example of a successful poker/restaurant set up. I hope RPT can bring more games to the Lancaster area.
A cap is fine to keep it competitive for the players, but the law is still the law, and we will not do anything to jeopardize our clients livelihood. That is, any infraction can result in fines, suspensions, and total loss of license.
It's not worth it. Many of our bars offer specials as well, and we provide each client with a document outlining best practices to make the most out of their investment on poker nights.
Unfortunately, we do not own the bars, so we cannot mandate what they do.
And E, not asking for an answer on this board is nice, but the fact that you asked at all.... still a little disrespectful.
This board is provided for RPT players to discuss their experiences on the tour, and to strengthen the overall feel of community. Not to find out where other games are provided by other companies, or competing bars.
It's not disrespectful to me by any means. But it is towards our clients who help pay for it, and expect players to patronize their restaurants. |
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millerd33
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| 2/17/2009 7:43 PM |
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Posted By ESagnor on 2/17/2009 5:52 PM
Posted By DHerr on 2/17/2009 4:20 PM
The "other" company that offers bonus points for money spent caps the points at 5 for any money spent over $15.00. You are certainly not going to "buy" your way into the TOC on bonus points. I was merely floating an idea that I saw someone else doing that might help RPT. While I do not play nearly as many RPT games as I used to, I want RPT to be successful.
I run an "independent" game for a Lancaster restaurant and we get between 60-80 players. There is a wing and draft special and these players keep the server running all night long. The restaurant is doing very well on food/beer sales and offers a very nice $100 cash first place prize. Here is a perfect example of a successful poker/restaurant set up. I hope RPT can bring more games to the Lancaster area. Doug, Where and what date/time are you running a game in town? In respect to RC you can email your answer to me at esagnor@yahoo.com Thanks, Eric
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griff49
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| 2/17/2009 8:28 PM |
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Posted By llDayo on 2/17/2009 8:59 AM
How about a bad beat points jackpot? Each venue could build up points based on the number of people that show up (say 1/100th of a point per person that shows up). Once a bad beat happens where four of a kind (with two of the played cards in your hand) gets beat by a better hand (again with two of the played cards in your hand) you get the bonus points rounded down to the nearest point.
A good idea, but without a dealer at every table to govern the honestly of the players, once the pot became worthwhile, I guarantee cheating (stacking the deck) would be involved to try and get the prize. It's an unfortunate truth, but it is what it is. The TD can't monitor every table for shuffling/cutting the deck. This is why we try and only run promotions that can be monitored by the TD at all times. |
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millerd33
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| 2/18/2009 1:01 AM |
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| This is why he gets the big bucks. |
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llDayo
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| 2/18/2009 9:02 AM |
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Posted By griff49 on 2/17/2009 8:28 PM
Posted By llDayo on 2/17/2009 8:59 AM
How about a bad beat points jackpot? Each venue could build up points based on the number of people that show up (say 1/100th of a point per person that shows up). Once a bad beat happens where four of a kind (with two of the played cards in your hand) gets beat by a better hand (again with two of the played cards in your hand) you get the bonus points rounded down to the nearest point. A good idea, but without a dealer at every table to govern the honestly of the players, once the pot became worthwhile, I guarantee cheating (stacking the deck) would be involved to try and get the prize. It's an unfortunate truth, but it is what it is. The TD can't monitor every table for shuffling/cutting the deck. This is why we try and only run promotions that can be monitored by the TD at all times.
Why'd you have to go and ruin it for me? How about a new one. The first person to give griff49 an atomic wedgie gets 100 extra chips to start at the TOC!  |
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griff49
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| 2/18/2009 10:43 AM |
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| The last guy that tried that in high school ended up with 8 working fingers. |
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